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From: ZenIsWhen
To: Martin Phipps
Date: 2007-03-31 10:14:46
Subject: Re: Noah's Flood

From: "ZenIsWhen" <hereslooking{at}>

"Martin Phipps" <martinphipps2{at}> wrote in message
> On Mar 30, 3:34 pm, "ZenIsWhen" <hereslook...{at}> wrote:
>> "Martin Phipps" <martinphip...{at}> wrote in message
>> news:1175177994.769316.81640{at}
>> > >From
>> > General introduction
>> > There are six surviving versions of the Ancient Near East flood story
>> > including the Genesis version. One of these versions, written
>> > centuries before Genesis, is called the Epic of Atrahasis and clearly
>> > describes the flood as a river flood. Later story tellers changed
>> > "river" to "sea" and thus changed the
local river flood into an ocean
>> > deluge. The ambiguous word for hills was mistranslated as mountains.
>> > There were several such mistakes or mistranslations during
>> > transmission of Noah's flood story.
>> > Noah's father Lamech was king of the Sumerian city-state Shuruppak, a
>> > commercial center on the Euphrates River in what is now Iraq. Noah
>> > also became king of Shuruppak. The ark was a commercial river barge
>> > for hauling cargo on the Euphrates River. The river barge hauled wine,
>> > beer, stone, lumber, textiles, oil, and livestock which was less than
>> > 280 head of cattle, sheep, goats, and other domesticated animals.
>> > There were no kangaroos, giraffes, elephants, lions, etc. on Noah's
>> > cattle barge.
>> > About 2900 BC a freak thunderstorm caused the Euphrates River to rise
>> > 15 cubits (22 feet) and it overflowed the levees. By the time Noah
>> > recognized that the levees were about to be breached, it was too late
>> > to evacuate his livestock to highground. He therefore boarded the
>> > nearby river barge to ride out the storm. He had to cut the mooring
>> > lines to prevent barge from heeling over in the rising river. The
>> > runaway barge floated down the Euphrates River into the Persian Gulf
>> > where it grounded in an estuary at the mouth of the river. This is
>> > discussed and described in detail in the Noah's Ark book. Maps in the
>> > book show the route taken by Noah's river barge.
>> > Noah was a wealthy land owner and a merchant or trade official for the
>> > Shuruppak government before becoming king. The flood of 2900 BC did
>> > not destroy Shuruppak. There were thousands of survivors of the flood
>> > and Noah met some of them after the barge grounded. Some of the things
>> > they talked about are quoted in surviving versions of the flood story.
>> > Noah was no longer king and had to flee into exile. A dispute occurred
>> > between Noah and his sons. His family separated and he never saw his
>> > sons again. A map in the book shows where the sons went and the route
>> > they took to get there. Noah got angry with his sons after being seen
>> > naked. The reason why he got angry is explained in the book.
>> > The Noah's Ark book gives the exact location (within a few yards) of
>> > Noah's altar where he offered a sacrifice after the barge grounded. It
>> > is an archaeological site and has already been excavated by
>> > archaeologists. The book describes in detail how the ark was probably
>> > constructed using the technology of 2900 BC. It was much smaller and
>> > shaped differently than it is usually described. The numbers in
>> > Genesis 5 are deciphered in the book and compared with the numbers in
>> > the Sumerian King List. The numbers were mistranslated. Methuselah did
>> > not live to be 969 and Noah did not live to 950. Noah lived to be 83.
>> > Methuselah was 85 when he died a few months after the barge grounded.
>> > The barge did not ground on a mountain. The mountains of Ararat were
>> > mentioned in the original legend, but the ark did not ground there.
>> > How the mountains of Ararat got involved is discussed at length in the
>> > book. After the barge grounded, Noah, his wife, his daughter, and his
>> > boatman traveled to a island where they lived in exile. The island is
>> > a real island and is identified in chapter 5 of the Noah's Ark book.
>> > Noah was an interesting man and several new facts about him are
>> > discussed in the book
>> > Martin
>> OK.
>> I have no doubt the biblical flood did not happen.
>> Now, do you have ANY valid evidence that these claims are nothing more
>> than
>> a different fairy tale?
>> "It says so in the book" is no different than "it
says so in the bible".
> Skeptical view of the flood myth
> As skeptics have long been aware, there was no global flood in the
> last 5000 years, a boatload of animals did not ground on so-called
> Mount Ararat or on any mountain, and the world's animals are not
> descended from two or seven pairs of each species that lived during
> the third millennium BC. Nor is there any archaeological proof that a
> man survived a flood by being on a boat loaded with animals, food, and
> drinking water.
> The Noah's Ark book summarized here does not claim historicity for
> Noah or the ark story, but the book does claim that some of the story
> elements in the Ancient Near East flood were based on an actual river
> flood. This archaeologically attested flood of the Euphrates River has
> been radiocarbon dated to about 2900 BC. This flood left a few feet of
> yellow mud in the Sumerian city Shuruppak, the ruins of which have
> been found at Tel Fara about 125 miles southeast of Baghdad. Some but
> not all Sumerian cities also show signs of this river flood at the
> beginning of the Early Dynastic I period. According to the Sumerian
> King List, a legendary king named Ziusudra lived in Shuruppak at the
> time of the flood. There was also a flood myth about king Ziusudra
> which includes several story elements very similar to the Genesis
> flood myth. Shuruppak was also the flood hero's city according to the
> Epic of Gilgamesh. The flood myth in the Epic of Gilgamesh was adapted
> from an earlier myth, the Epic of Atrahasis which is also very similar
> to the Genesis flood myth. Six of these Ancient Near East flood myths
> contain numerous distinctive story elements that are very similar to
> the Genesis flood myth and indicate a literary affinity or dependency
> on a common body of myths about the flood hero Ziusudra and based on
> the Euphrates River flood of 2900 BC.
> Parts of the original myths were physically possible, but other parts
> were not possible. The possible parts can be treated as an ancient
> legend to which mythical material was added later. However, without
> contemporary artifacts, it is not possible to prove how much of the
> original legend was true and how much was fiction based on a real
> flood. In the Noah's Ark book, the original legend is reconstructed by
> piecing together fragments from the various surviving editions of the
> flood myth, like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. This reconstruction is
> governed by the requirement that each story element in the legend be
> physically possible, technologically practical, consistent with
> archaeological facts, and plausible for 2900 BC. Some of the
> impossible story elements were mistranslations or misunderstandings,
> and these are corrected before including them in the reconstructed
> legend.
> Martin

For your original post - the book made WAY too many claims, and details,
that were impossible to know.
That's what exposed it as a work of fiction.

You should have explained that first.

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